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Did I mention I got an 'A' with this?
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Did you even bother reading it before you posted or voted?
Yes
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No
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Total Votes : 5

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scholar



Joined: 19 Apr 2008
Posts: 1862

PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wassupimviet wrote:
This is bad and you should feel bad. Considering all the credible scientific organizations such as the IPCC, a international forum of thousands of climate scientists coming a consensus on the available research, haven't said anything near as drastic as this, you're setting up a strawman. An actual fallacy, mind.

Quote:
It has been suggested that runaway global warming might cause the climate on Earth to become like Venus, which would make it uninhabitable. In less extreme scenarios it could cause the end of civilization, as we know it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risks_to_civilization,_humans_and_planet_Earth

Quote:
When asked about the environment, Stephen Hawking said he was "very worried about global warming." He said he was afraid Earth "might end up like Venus , at 250 degrees centigrade [482 degrees Fahrenheit] and raining sulfuric acid."

http://www.merliannews.com/Environmental_Awareness_46/Stephen_Hawking_Worried_That_Global_Warming_Will_Turn_Earth_Into_Venus.shtml

Right... wassup, when making statements please take the time to actually think. I do have a great deal of respect for you, but sometimes you are so comfortable with your own perceptions that you don't take the time to look stuff up anymore. Not to mention that the video below is in by source page.

http://fora.tv/2009/08/18/A_REALLY_Inconvenient_Truth_Dan_Miller
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wassupimviet
Revolution FAIL
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Joined: 28 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh gee, an unqualified quote from Wikipedia and the meanderings of a (smart, certainly, but he's talking out of his field) physicist! Shame on me for ever doubting you.

Is the IPCC rife with political bastardizations? Certainly. Still, it is the most comprehensive and holistic collection of climate science yet. I'm also amused you linked me to a video that says climate change is actually REALLY SERIOUS BUSINESS, businesses and industry are really screwing things up, the IPCC is underselling how much we really screw things up, and we ought to be doing something about it. Perhaps you should look at your own research?
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scholar



Joined: 19 Apr 2008
Posts: 1862

PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 1:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wassupimviet wrote:
Oh gee, an unqualified quote from Wikipedia and the meanderings of a (smart, certainly, but he's talking out of his field) physicist! Shame on me for ever doubting you.
That was the product of a two minute google search. Given time I can find a few dozen.

wassupimviet wrote:
Is the IPCC rife with political bastardizations? Certainly. Still, it is the most comprehensive and holistic collection of climate science yet. I'm also amused you linked me to a video that says climate change is actually REALLY SERIOUS BUSINESS, businesses and industry are really screwing things up, the IPCC is underselling how much we really screw things up, and we ought to be doing something about it. Perhaps you should look at your own research?
Yes, it is. Given that it's been up for a while, you probably already saw that.

And I have done my own research, a lot of it actually. In case you are suffering from a case of amnesia I'm not saying that global warming does not exist, I actually support the notion that it does. The purpose of my essay was to clear up some misconceptions surrounding it.

And, in case you have also forgotten, you said I was setting up a fallacy and no one was supporting that idea. I just showed you they were. The video references quite a few scientists by name or organization. So... what exactly is your point?
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wassupimviet
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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
That was the product of a two minute google search. Given time I can find a few dozen.


Make it happen!

Quote:
Yes, it is. Given that it's been up for a while, you probably already saw that.

And I have done my own research, a lot of it actually. In case you are suffering from a case of amnesia I'm not saying that global warming does not exist, I actually support the notion that it does. The purpose of my essay was to clear up some misconceptions surrounding it.


What you argue is that climate change does not have an anthropogenic cause; that is, climate change is not significantly affected by human activity. The video you linked to argues that we're severely screwing things up with this whole climate change thing, which goes contrary to what you said. That was amusing.

Quote:
And, in case you have also forgotten, you said I was setting up a fallacy and no one was supporting that idea. I just showed you they were. The video references quite a few scientists by name or organization. So... what exactly is your point?


The video said nothing about every last bit of methane going up into the sky and turning Earth into a Venus-like furnace, unless I'm mistaken. Your fallacy is that you set up a big-arse strawman with unqualified statements to knock down the anthropogenic climate change argument.
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scholar



Joined: 19 Apr 2008
Posts: 1862

PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 2:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wassupimviet wrote:
Make it happen!
I will, for now I just think responding is more important.

wassupimviet wrote:
What you argue is that climate change does not have an anthropogenic cause; that is, climate change is not significantly affected by human activity. The video you linked to argues that we're severely screwing things up with this whole climate change thing, which goes contrary to what you said. That was amusing.
Not necessarily, I was making the argument that it is much more complex than "we did it", in fact I was stating we are driving it along faster than it was. Global Climate change was not caused by us, but we are making it worse should be made apparent.

And having a source that disagrees with me was necessary as I used their data but came up with different conclusions.

wassupimviet wrote:
The video said nothing about every last bit of methane going up into the sky and turning Earth into a Venus-like furnace, unless I'm mistaken. Your fallacy is that you set up a big-arse strawman with unqualified statements to knock down the anthropogenic climate change argument.
You didn't actually watch it then. It becomes quite explicit towards this at the end.

2 Degrees C = Really bad.
4 Degrees C = Biblical Damage
6 Degrees C = Game over, the Earth and the Human Race is dead.

Also a Venus-like Furnace does not mean it will be the same temperature, but that a similar process to Venice will make our planet, basically, uninhabitable. Which is repeated in the video a few times I believe. I was about halfway through when I refreshed the page and saw your post.

The video, basically, states that we destroy the planet to the point that the permafrost starts putting out more CO2 than we do, this raises the planet to the point that the oceans stop absorbing CO2 and may even start emitting it. Frozen methane inside the ocean floor holds twice as much CO2 as there is in the atmosphere now, and there is a danger in the distant future that this will happen. Food chains will collapse, vast forests will burn adding even more CO2. This chain reaction will render our planet uninhabitable, which was stated in pretty plain words. But you should also know I made no mention of Venus inside my actual essay, this was an elaboration. Furthermore my statement said that it was theorized that this will happen, now I've provided four things saying it could if things do not change.
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scholar



Joined: 19 Apr 2008
Posts: 1862

PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For reference:

last paragraph wrote:
With all this taken into consideration I do not disagree with the idea that the earth is warming. It is kind of hard not to warm up after a cold period. Carbon dioxide is increasing in the atmosphere. The ice caps are melting. Permafrost is melting. Our landscapes are changing dramatically. All of these point to the fact that our steady Earth is not so steady; its state is not so permanent. Our world will grow, diversify, and life will spread. Burning fossil fuels is not a good thing; it does add carbon dioxide into the atmosphere and produces waste. Even if itís not the main thing driving global warming, itís something we should stop. I am not opposed to driving a hydrogen car, nor a hybrid. One produces water and another dramatically increases the efficiencies of our fuel resources, because they are, like everything else, temporary. I am fully behind expanding green energy resources as long as itís not ethanol products. I am against destroying our forests and the species of our world. Furthermore a growing amount of methane in our atmosphere may have effects that we are unprepared for. It is of paramount importance to remember that two million years ago we werenít even human yet, wandering in the African continent. What will happen may well redefine how we live our lives for years to come.
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wassupimviet
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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

opening paragraph wrote:
Since the late twentieth century there have been cries of global warming and the belief that we are destroying our world. I disagree, not with the premise that the Earth is warming, but the premise that it is the people who are the primary and driving factor behind it.


Then you follow along with that Venus strawman in your later post. What a load of tripe.
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scholar



Joined: 19 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wassupimviet wrote:
opening paragraph wrote:
Since the late twentieth century there have been cries of global warming and the belief that we are destroying our world. I disagree, not with the premise that the Earth is warming, but the premise that it is the people who are the primary and driving factor behind it.


Then you follow along with that Venus strawman in your later post. What a load of tripe.
I never said that Venus is the end result of Global Warming. I called the very idea as stupid. In fact...

Quote:
My problem is not with Global Warming, or even with the idea of it. As inside the article I agree whole-heartedly that the Earth is gradually warming and it will have dire consequences for the planet. In the permafrost section I meant to show, quite clearly, that the common perception in regards to Global Warming, especially in line with the arctic, are ridiculous. It has been proposed, quite blatantly, by a very large number of people that should all the methane and other gasses in the north melt and make it into the atmosphere that there will be a tumbling climate disaster which will have Earth end up like Venus. This. Is. Stupid. I'm sorry if it makes it seem like I have a vested interest in discrediting Global Warming (which I don't), but I have a vested interest in getting rid of stupidity.


I also fail to see the contradiction. I really don't.
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Yuki
The Forgotten One


Joined: 25 Jul 2008
Posts: 1146

PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wassupimviet wrote:
Your fallacy is that you set up a big-arsestrawman with unqualified statements to knock down the anthropogenic climate change argument.

I'M SO PROUD, MY SON! YOU USED THE BRITISH VERSION! There's hope for you yet.
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Yue Fei



Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Posts: 257

PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wassupimviet wrote:
opening paragraph wrote:
Since the late twentieth century there have been cries of global warming and the belief that we are destroying our world. I disagree, not with the premise that the Earth is warming, but the premise that it is the people who are the primary and driving factor behind it.


Then you follow along with that Venus strawman in your later post. What a load of tripe.


Fallicist's fallacy.
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